Comments on: "We’re against everything. We’re patriots" http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/ Topics on Russia and the Former Soviet Union Sun, 03 Feb 2008 00:31:00 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Chrisius Maximus http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-585 Chrisius Maximus Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:19:00 +0000 http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-585 Has Russia done anything like this yet? http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2007/11/07/vo.georgia.unrest.water.cannons.ap?iref=videosearch Has Russia done anything like this yet? http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2007/11/07/vo.georgia.unrest.water.cannons.ap?iref=videosearch

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By: Chrisius Maximus http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-578 Chrisius Maximus Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:30:00 +0000 http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-578 I really liked that acoustic album he did around 1984 -- can't remember what it's called.<br/><br/>Most underappreciated band ever:<br/><br/>http://youtube.com/watch?v=vC0ufEXliuc<br/><br/>And of course the obligatory Circle Jerks/Debbie Gibson Soft Boys cover song. This is sheer awesomeness: http://youtube.com/watch?v=cNoFAOHAQ94 I really liked that acoustic album he did around 1984 — can’t remember what it’s called.

Most underappreciated band ever:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vC0ufEXliuc

And of course the obligatory Circle Jerks/Debbie Gibson Soft Boys cover song. This is sheer awesomeness: http://youtube.com/watch?v=cNoFAOHAQ94

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By: W. Shedd http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-577 W. Shedd Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:11:00 +0000 http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-577 Yes, you're probably right regarding Other Russia's last little organized march. <br/><br/>I know they actually brought people in from cities in surrounding regions by bus for that one, to create a crowd. My wife's cousin took it as an opportunity for a free bus ride into Moscow. She grabbed their early morning bus, didn't go to the march rally, but instead went shopping and took a train home.<br/><br/>I'm generally the first in line to criticize remarks about Russia or Putin being fascists, etc. However, Russia seems soft on these neo-Nazi fascist types. I'm quite sure they could be prevented from marching or prosecuted under the existing extremism laws.<br/><br/>Regarding Robyn Hitchcock - yes, I'm a fan of lots of quirky music. The first album of his that I ever purchased was Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians - Gotta Let This Hen Out. It's a great live album, I still know practically every word to those songs. I'm less familiar with his Soft Boys stuff, but I should probably find and give it a listen. Yes, you’re probably right regarding Other Russia’s last little organized march.

I know they actually brought people in from cities in surrounding regions by bus for that one, to create a crowd. My wife’s cousin took it as an opportunity for a free bus ride into Moscow. She grabbed their early morning bus, didn’t go to the march rally, but instead went shopping and took a train home.

I’m generally the first in line to criticize remarks about Russia or Putin being fascists, etc. However, Russia seems soft on these neo-Nazi fascist types. I’m quite sure they could be prevented from marching or prosecuted under the existing extremism laws.

Regarding Robyn Hitchcock – yes, I’m a fan of lots of quirky music. The first album of his that I ever purchased was Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians – Gotta Let This Hen Out. It’s a great live album, I still know practically every word to those songs. I’m less familiar with his Soft Boys stuff, but I should probably find and give it a listen.

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By: Chrisius Maximus http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-576 Chrisius Maximus Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:49:00 +0000 http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-576 Hey, you like Robyn Hitchcock? I used to be a hige Soft Boys fan. Hey, you like Robyn Hitchcock? I used to be a hige Soft Boys fan.

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By: Chrisius Maximus http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-575 Chrisius Maximus Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:47:00 +0000 http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-575 Actually i think you are right that the liberals are often viewed rightly or wrongly as Western agents, whereas the nationalits are not.<br/><br/>Although I would like to point out that Other Russia, though people keep refering to it as liberal, is about 80% NBP.<br/><br/>IIRC what usually happens with Other Russia is that they request a particular marching area, get told that they have to go somewhere else, and then show up at the first place after having given the word to foreign journalists so they can get themselves being oppressed on film. That's what happened in Moscow anyway. Actually i think you are right that the liberals are often viewed rightly or wrongly as Western agents, whereas the nationalits are not.

Although I would like to point out that Other Russia, though people keep refering to it as liberal, is about 80% NBP.

IIRC what usually happens with Other Russia is that they request a particular marching area, get told that they have to go somewhere else, and then show up at the first place after having given the word to foreign journalists so they can get themselves being oppressed on film. That’s what happened in Moscow anyway.

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By: W. Shedd http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-572 W. Shedd Tue, 06 Nov 2007 16:08:00 +0000 http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-572 Regarding liberals marching - I thought Kasparov and his bunch were actually denied a permit for their last march, and they went ahead and did it anyway and were promptly dispersed by police, etc?<br/><br/>It seems pretty clear to me that Russian extremism laws should permit facists to march and preach hatred.<br/><br/>In a conversation with a Russian friend of mine about this, I summarized my observations as follows: "any liberal is labeled as being an agent of the West or USA ... but the facists - they are assholes, but at least they are russian assholes." Regarding liberals marching – I thought Kasparov and his bunch were actually denied a permit for their last march, and they went ahead and did it anyway and were promptly dispersed by police, etc?

It seems pretty clear to me that Russian extremism laws should permit facists to march and preach hatred.

In a conversation with a Russian friend of mine about this, I summarized my observations as follows: “any liberal is labeled as being an agent of the West or USA … but the facists – they are assholes, but at least they are russian assholes.”

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By: Chrisius Maximus http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-568 Chrisius Maximus Tue, 06 Nov 2007 15:04:00 +0000 http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-568 "The same can't be said of similar marches by more liberal fringe groups or parties."<br/><br/>But they do march...<br/><br/>"I'm actually rather surprised that Russia doesn't have laws strictly banning neo-Nazi organizations, paraphernalia, writing, etc., much like Germany. Arguably, no nation suffered more than Russia during that war."<br/><br/>True on both points.<br/><br/>This link was forwarded to me by someone who said it was extremely biased, but anyway: http://xeno.sova-center.ru/6BA2468/6BB4208/9D8E370? “The same can’t be said of similar marches by more liberal fringe groups or parties.”

But they do march…

“I’m actually rather surprised that Russia doesn’t have laws strictly banning neo-Nazi organizations, paraphernalia, writing, etc., much like Germany. Arguably, no nation suffered more than Russia during that war.”

True on both points.

This link was forwarded to me by someone who said it was extremely biased, but anyway: http://xeno.sova-center.ru/6BA2468/6BB4208/9D8E370?

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By: W. Shedd http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-565 W. Shedd Tue, 06 Nov 2007 14:53:00 +0000 http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-565 I've actually linked to the most recent cases where a jokes about Putin, attributed to Gennady Zyuganov and printed in a Communist party newsletter in Novosibirsk, led to an investigation by the FSB under the Russian extremism law. That article also cites Vladimir Rakhmankov case, where he was prosecuted for making a joke, calling Putin the country's "Phallic Symbol".<br/><br/>The fact is, under the Russian extremism laws, the neo-Nazi marches shouldn't be permitted at all. But they are permitted and to some extent even protected by the government. The same can't be said of similar marches by more liberal fringe groups or parties.<br/><br/>I think this steers all politics in Russia further to the right or extreme right, and to some extent legitimizes racist points of view.<br/><br/>I would love to get my hands on a comprehensive list of arrests for various groups and marches across Russia. But obviously, no such data exists and would be open to some interpretation.<br/><br/>I'm actually rather surprised that Russia doesn't have laws strictly banning neo-Nazi organizations, paraphernalia, writing, etc., much like Germany. Arguably, no nation suffered more than Russia during that war. I’ve actually linked to the most recent cases where a jokes about Putin, attributed to Gennady Zyuganov and printed in a Communist party newsletter in Novosibirsk, led to an investigation by the FSB under the Russian extremism law. That article also cites Vladimir Rakhmankov case, where he was prosecuted for making a joke, calling Putin the country’s “Phallic Symbol”.

The fact is, under the Russian extremism laws, the neo-Nazi marches shouldn’t be permitted at all. But they are permitted and to some extent even protected by the government. The same can’t be said of similar marches by more liberal fringe groups or parties.

I think this steers all politics in Russia further to the right or extreme right, and to some extent legitimizes racist points of view.

I would love to get my hands on a comprehensive list of arrests for various groups and marches across Russia. But obviously, no such data exists and would be open to some interpretation.

I’m actually rather surprised that Russia doesn’t have laws strictly banning neo-Nazi organizations, paraphernalia, writing, etc., much like Germany. Arguably, no nation suffered more than Russia during that war.

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By: Chrisius Maximus http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-562 Chrisius Maximus Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:45:00 +0000 http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-562 "Of course, the Kremlin and law enforcement officials seem loathe to use those laws and measures against the ultra-nationalist bogeymen, preferring instead to crack the heads and knuckles of any organized liberal parties and individuals who dare fault or make a joke about Putin."<br/><br/>I'm going to have to see some actual data regarding enforcement of these laws, prosecution patterns and so forth, before I actually believe this is true. “Of course, the Kremlin and law enforcement officials seem loathe to use those laws and measures against the ultra-nationalist bogeymen, preferring instead to crack the heads and knuckles of any organized liberal parties and individuals who dare fault or make a joke about Putin.”

I’m going to have to see some actual data regarding enforcement of these laws, prosecution patterns and so forth, before I actually believe this is true.

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By: Michael Averko http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-561 Michael Averko Mon, 05 Nov 2007 20:26:00 +0000 http://accidentalrussophile.com/2007/11/05/were-against-everything-were-patriots/#comment-561 Pardon misspell (among). Pardon misspell (among).

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